Podcast Live: Politics Edition, 5th October 2019 - our review
podcasts are a breath of fresh air
They remind me of the beginnings of the Internet where everyone was doing it for the love of it - and there are so many, it’s like an ocean you can dive into as deep as you’d like to go. I took a break from WiFi to deal with a Netflix obsession and they also suited my mobile broadband data allowance, and I swapped one obsession for another. A podcast pro tip: get the Player FM app.
Listening to the New European Podcast in September I heard about the event Podcast Live, where thirteen podcasts all focussing on politics (so let’s face it: Brexit) would all be recorded live on one day.
One of the things that really attracted it to me was that there were a whole range of views that would be show. From Remainers to Leavers, from staunch No Dealers to neutral nuanced technical discussions. Here was a chance to also get outside the bubble of confirmation bias.
I’m going to focus on two podcasts in particular, and a chance encounter with the European Research Group Chairman Steve Baker following a podcast he recorded. If you scroll to the bottom of the page you can see the programme with all the podcasts listed.
The ‘UK IN A CHANGING EUROPE’ podcast
This was a heavyweight group of panellists with a mastery of detail, chaired by author and commentator James Millar.
Sir Jonathan Faull, former British official in the European Commission.
The legendary Jill Rutter, senior research fellow, The UK in a Changing Europe and the Institute for Government.
Professor Catherine Barnard, Professor of European Union and Employment Law at the University of Cambridge.
Peter Foster, Europe Editor, The Telegraph Group.
I think of myself as a big picture guy, but this panel put me to shame. I was expecting a hard to follow discussion about how a circle can be squared - how a deal can be done that doesn’t include Northern Ireland being in a custom’s union with the EU. But what we actually got was a discussion about what the UK will be after all this short term mess is sorted out.
Sir Jonathan raised the point that there is actually some urgency in getting to this. The EU like to tie things up legally so the current strategy of ‘muddling through’ won’t work for much longer. He also said that the European Commission have never had a clear indication of what the UK wants to be.
What could the UK become?
Peter Foster from The Telegraph talked about how the feeling of ‘British exceptionalism’ had led to people voting for Brexit. This delusion that we matter more than we do on the world’s stage. He has lived in a number of foreign cities and he suggests going around the world and asking people what they think of the UK for a reality check.
The UK has soft power and is seen as a creative force, but it’s no longer taken as seriously as people would like to think.
Any of these ways out of the short term situation will need to get us to a vision of the future. No Deal isn’t actually a ‘thing’, it makes the thing longer and goes right back to the very beginning, with WTO rules and tariffs.
There were a few foundations laid down by the panel - two things will happen whatever the outcome. (1) the pound will devalue and (2) there will be tariffs with the EU, at least while a free trade agreement is being negotiated. So it’s likely that there will need to be salary depreciation to make the UK competitive. New trade deals wouldn’t replace the EU’s markets, which are far bigger (incidentally Phillip Hammond was on Sky News’ All Out Politics in mid October talking about these new trade deals as counting for tenths of a percent of uplift). The panel wondered what Labour in particular would think of this lower wage economy.
Could the UK get into a ‘race to the bottom’ mentality. For instance trashing environmental, social or employment protections that will no longer be applied via the EU.
Interestingly the panel thought that the country wouldn’t stand for this, or at least wouldn’t vote for a Parliament that would stand for this approach. It’s not where Britain is at.
The view of the panel was that there really is only one way out of it - increasing productivity - which has languished in the UK for years, mainly because of it being a services-led economy.
This will mean we need skills strategies and an industrial strategy to get us back on track. Why aren’t we talking about what these could be and putting our energy into them rather than the short term decisions around Brexit?
Soon the UK will be on its own rattling between the US, the EU, China a host of other countries and regional bodies, and it will need to be buccaneering in whatever it does.
It’s time for a ‘mega rethink’.
Could the uk be the home of the green new deal?
One of the things that has been really exciting about working with our clients the London Borough of Hackney on their international partnership with the City of Oslo is the shared vision for both a sustainable and economically successful future.
At a UK level this doesn’t seem to be in either ‘Leave’ or ‘Remain’, ‘Labour’ or ‘Conservative’ camps. It’s an issue that unites us.
You can listen to the UK in a Changing Europe podcast here.
Some of these themes were picked up in the New European podcast, which I feature next...
the ‘new european Brexit podcast’
This was a very different discussion. In their hearts they are still up for the fight to Remain and never give up, but the humour that jovial hosts Steve Anglesey and Richard Porritt display suggests that it’s now more of a long shot. But I love that they are still fighting for the cause.
Their guests were New European columnists Bonnie Greer and James Ball. The four of them are pictured above.
This discussion went back and looked at why the UK had voted how in the way it did, where we are now and what is needed to ensure a progressive future - rather than the ‘mega rethink’ of the previous podcast, we need an inspiring person, a ‘New Hope’.
Going back to 2016, the Remain campaign was a disaster. It ignored the fact that people’s wages had stagnated and that they were under austerity and so didn’t want to remain at all. ‘You’ll lose the good life’ didn’t make sense as an argument when there was no good life to lose.
Also Leave voters got a simpler, shorter message - “four words beat four sentences in terms of cut through”.
Bonnie said it beautifully.
“Remain people voted because of what they thought.
Leave people voted because of how they felt.”
Where are we now?
Bonnie says we are now in the ‘irrational zone’ - it’s a ‘Thelma and Louise’ Brexit.
The ‘tropes’ being used by the ‘performance artist’ Boris Johnson and his ‘monster’ Dominic Cummings are classic post-World War Two, and very ‘English’, not UK. The bumbling along and the lovable chaos, both in his professional and personal life.
Johnson was the guy who invented the ‘Euro-myth’ in the 90s for the Telegraph with his misinformation.
Cummings’ worldview is that humans are flawed, as Bonnie highlighted how she’s been regular reader of his game theory blog.
What Cummings spotted was that Parliament likes to vote for things that keep the status quo.
it’s time to reclaim the tropes
Bonnie made the point that now is the time to reclaim some of the UK tropes that are ‘available’ to counter the Johnson-Cummings tropes. Bonnie explained that Britain used to walk into a diplomatic room internationally people would think, “here come the grow ups”. But now this is under threat.
Britain is all about openness, diversity and fair play and these tropes are all there for someone to use and run with - the New Hope I mentioned earlier - and ‘fair play is not a weak trope’.
Could it be Keir Starmer? James Ball thought he was too managerial and not enough of an inspirational leader figure. Someone in the audience disagreed. (I personally think he’s a shoo in to be the next Labour leader).
Bonnie said that Remain supporters shouldn’t be afraid to show some emotion. Europeans is who we are, and we need to shout that louder.
You can listen to the podcast here.
bumping into steve baker
To ensure I’m being totally balanced in this review of the event I’ll mention being part of a group corridor chat with Steve Baker from the ERG. This followed his interview as part of the Chopper’s Brexit Podcast that you can listen to here. (link grudgingly added)
What surprised me about Steve was his pride in his own moral standing. He believes in democracy and in being honest to the electorate in what you say and then in what you do.
He talked about how he was playing his part on his side to ensure the courts and crown are kept out of this. And if both sides keep this attitude we will be fine. Quite something to hear someone say but actually reassuring all the same.
Well done to the organisers of Podcast Live and everyone who was part of it. I highly recommend going to the next one.
Duncan Ray, Founder, Remarkable City
11th October, 2019
@duncan__ray and @remarkablecity on Twitter
duncan@remarkable.city
